＊＊＊交通事故体験談＊＊＊ - *MR2channel* ＭＲ２ちゃんねる

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1　 ななし＠マターリ　 2001/10/04(Thu) 19:27: ドカーンとやっちゃった体験を告白するスレ。
公道、サーキット問わず、反省を込めて書いてね。

被害総額もわかる範囲で書き込むこと。定期的に合計額出します。

私は先週右フロントフェンダーをやりました。
右から一時停止無視の車が突っ込んできました。
板金だけで済むそうですが、８万円掛かりました。

先程　相手から集金してきました！１２万円を･････。ﾌﾟﾌﾟｯ
202　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/01/13(Fri) 22:44: くだらない事なら長文書くな。
203　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/01/13(Fri) 23:10: ごめんなさい。くだらなくないので上げます。
204　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/01/13(Fri) 23:25: >>201
当たり屋にいまだに泣かされる奴が多いのはなぜか考えろ。
事実として被害がそこに発生してるんだよ。そもそも連絡先
を「交換」したとは書いてない。
205　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/01/13(Fri) 23:33: 「相手に連絡先を教えたのにひき逃げ犯にされるなんてありえない」

これは間違った理論。なぜならば相手がしらばっくれれば教えず逃げた
のと何も変わらないから。口約束が「約束」として効力を発揮するのは
双方がそれに同意しているか、または片方がそれを否定しても、その
否定を覆せるだけの材料を肯定する側が提示できるときに限られる。
自動車のナンバーから素人でも簡単に個人情報が得られるのだから、
その情報そのものを保有しているという事実はこの材料にあたらない。
206　 ななし＠マターリ＠ｉ　 2006/01/14(Sat) 00:01: >>194が嘘かどうかは知らないが、間違った考え方ではないと思うんだよね。
というのは、必ずその場で警察に届けないと、もし相手の気が変わって、
人身なり物損なりで、損害賠償を請求してきた場合に、
自賠責なり任意なりの保険をおろすのに、警察への届けが必要になってくるから。
といっても、その場で急を要する重大な人身がない限り、
警察へは後から届けても別に問題はないんだけどね。
ただ、事故の起こった場所が、どちらか一方の住まいから、かなり遠いとか、
そういう理由で事故現場の管轄の警察に行くのが億劫になっちゃう場合があるから、
後々の面倒を考えたら、その場で警察にちゃんと届けておいた方がいいとは思います。
207　 ななし＠マターリ＠ｉ　 2006/01/14(Sat) 01:46: 貼。。
208　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/01/14(Sat) 01:58: ＜当たり屋にいまだに泣かされる奴が多いのはなぜか考えろ。＞
２０５さんのような人が多くいるからです。
＜事実としての被害＞とはあたりやに搾取されるという意味ですか？
それとも人身傷害、器物損壊の件ですか？
＜そもそも連絡先を「交換」したとは書いてない。＞だから何なのでしょう？
加害者が自らの氏名、連絡先を被害者に対し開示したうえで、
被害者が個人情報の開示を拒否すれば、加害者はそれを強制することはできません。
加害者が被害者の個人情報を知り得ていないということに法的落ち度はありません。

＜片方がそれを否定しても、その否定を覆せるだけの材料を肯定する側が提示できる
ときに限られる＞
「片方がそれを肯定しても、その肯定を覆せるだけの材料を否定する側が提示できる
ときに限られる」とは、なぜならないのですか？
あたりや及びそれに類する事を生業にする者は、概ね自らは何の証明もせず相手のみに
証明を強要することが多いです。

事実は事実なのです。コツンとなったのも事実。二人で怪我なし、傷なしと確認した
のも事実。ピッピさんが自分の連絡先を渡したのも事実。
誰に脅されようと、正々堂々と出る所に出れば良いのです。

204さんも205さんも警察に届けていない事を突っついているかと思いますが、
206さん、ありがとうございます。多分結論はそこだと思いますがピッピさんの場合は
過去のことでやり直しはできません。
私としては、ピッピさんの行動に「法的落ち度」が無いことを言いたいだけです。
２０５さんのようなあたりやが悪意を持って前言を覆せば厄介なことになる可能性は
あります。但し、警察に届けたからといって事故詐欺が防げるわけではありません。
要は、前述しましたが毅然とした態度と不当な要求に屈しない強い意思です。
みなさんも、どうかご留意下さい。
209　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/01/14(Sat) 17:20: 交通事故に「被害者」「加害者」の概念を持ってるのが間違い。

一度事故って警察行ってみりゃわかるさ。
210　 ななし＠マターリ＠ｉ　 2006/01/14(Sat) 19:34: >>209
この話の発端は>>191にある訳でしょ？
信号待ちで止まってる車にピッピさんが追突した、いわゆる過失割合が、10：0の事故だから、
加害者、被害者としていいのでわ？
211　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/01/14(Sat) 23:58: >>209
208の私の文面から私が一度も事故を起こしたことが無いと、
どの様な根拠で判断されるのか理解に苦しみます。
>>210
209さんの言い分はそういう意味では無いと思います。
暗に、警察の民事不介入を示唆されてのことと推測します。
現場の警察官も、又は事故証明書においても過失の有無、割合、つまり
どちらが悪いとか事故原因などについては関わりを持ちません。
しかし、事が民事に関わると被、加害の概念が無ければ成立しません。
誰が損害賠償の請求権を持ち、誰に対して請求するのかを考えましょう。
私も事故経験、事故処理と不当要求防止について想像や憶測でコメントを
したことはありませんでしたが、件の”お約束”ではなかったということで
このサイトでは無用との認識も擡げており、これ以上のレスは控えます。
道路交通法の原文を一度ご覧になるといいですね。結構おもしろいですよ。
尚、208の中で＜２０５さんのようなあたりやが＞との行はあたかも
205さんがあたりやであるかのような記述でありました。
本意は＜205記載のような主張を行なうあたりやが＞という意味でした。
お詫びして訂正いたします。申し訳ありません。
212　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/02/17(Fri) 22:37: すいません、質問です。
昨日の事。
昨年12月まで借りていた家の近くの駐車場があるのですが、今は他契約者がいなく空いている状態（契約時と同じ場所）だったので一日無断で停めてしまいました。
次の日、車に行くとフェンダーが凹んでました。駐車場が狭いため、隣の車が切り替えしのバック時にぶつけたのは明らかなのですが。
この場合、修理代を請求してもいいのでしょうか？
213　 たいちょ　 2006/02/18(Sat) 01:47: 請求すればいいと思うよ。
路上駐車しててぶつけられたのと同じでは？
214　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/02/18(Sat) 03:34: しらを切られる可能性高いから、いっそのこと、10倍返しにしてあちこちへこませてやるってのはどうだい。
215　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/18(Sat) 07:08: >>212
当て逃げは、発見したらすぐに警察に届け出るべし。
移動すると後々面倒だよ。
任意保険の条件によっては、等級据え置きで直せるのもあるだろうから、調べてみては如何かな？
216　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/18(Sat) 14:48: >>215
公道じゃないので警察行っても事故証明出ません。
217　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/18(Sat) 16:53: >>216
そうなの？
218　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/18(Sat) 20:22: >>216-217
地域の警察によっては、対応に差があるからどうとも言えないよ。
以前会社の駐車場でやられた時は相手が認めなかったから、警察と上から圧力かけて認めさせたけどね。
証明が出なくとも、相手に警察の取調べ受けさせるだけでも相当のプレッシャーになるから、効果的には良いよ。
ただ、今回の件は有料駐車場に無断駐車の点を突っ込まれる事があるかもしれない諸刃の剣。
219　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/18(Sat) 21:10: 有料駐車場に無断駐車することは（道徳的には）悪いことなんだけど、
刑事ではないので突っ込まれることはないと思われる。そんなことで
民事不介入のスタンスを放棄するはずもなく。
220　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/18(Sat) 21:24: >>219
車両確認で、相手車両不在なら大家に確認しなければならないでしょ？
その際に、大家から駐車料金を請求されるかもしれない。
221　 212　 2006/02/18(Sat) 21:52: ご意見ありがとうございます！やっぱ深いっすね…
一応、明日隣の車の人に確認しに行ってきて、そこでシラを切られたら警察に届け出ようかと思うんですが、どうでしょうか？
222　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/02/18(Sat) 22:13: >>220
無断駐車したことによる罰金という表示は法的には無効だから。
実際にお金を取れるわけがない。
223　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/18(Sat) 22:48: >>222
ttp://www.hou-nattoku.com/consult/106.php
表示は無効でも少額訴訟起こされる可能性は否定できないし、警察によって駐車事実が証明されるなら払わなければならなくなりますね。
おまけに違法行為だから業務妨害や建造物侵入罪が適用されますよ。
請求自体は加害者に行えば良いけど、そういうリスクを知っておかないと･･･
224　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/18(Sat) 23:22: よくいるんだよな。法的に無効だからといって関連した法に関する無知でモラル破壊する奴。
他人に迷惑かける意味では、珍走団と変わらん。
サイテーだね。
225　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/02/19(Sun) 03:09: 少額は意味ないと思うよ。出向くのは面倒だけど。現場で
「本訴plz」の一言で終了。駐車事実が証明されたところで、
何も起こせませんよ。何度も言うように、警察というのは
民事には絶対に不介入です。民事暴力介入とは話が別です。

迷惑を掛ける掛けないという問題じゃなく、法的にどうなのか、
実際にどうなるのかが焦点だと思いますが。話題として。

1円でも正攻法で取ることができたのであれば、事例を示すべきです。
そんなので取れるなら世の中もっと「間違ったこと」がなくなりますよ。
226　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/02/19(Sun) 04:47: 不法駐車だ何だって言う前に、しらを切られるって、相手に。証拠がないんだからどうにもならんよ。多分。腹の虫がおさまらなければ、闇打ちかけるか10倍返ししかないって。
227　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/19(Sun) 05:38: >>225
業務妨害や建造物侵入罪は刑事事件だよ。
無知さらけ出すだけだからやめときな。
228　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/19(Sun) 08:33: >>225
>>224
229　 たいちょ　 2006/02/19(Sun) 14:36: 別々のことを一緒に考えるからおかしくなるんだよ。

契約してない駐車場に勝手に止めたのは、駐車場管理者と止めたドライバーの問題。
横においてぶつけられたのは、ぶつけた車側とぶつけられた車側の問題。
230　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/02/20(Mon) 12:44: >>226-228
別々に考えなければならないという最低限必要なことを無視して語らないで下さい。
231　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/20(Mon) 22:06: >>230
あんたが言うべき事ではないのでは？？
別々の案件であれば別々に考えるべきだが、関連した事態は想定しておかないと高くつく羽目になるだろ。
他人の敷地で問題起こしてんだから、管理者の耳に入ればトラブルもあると思うよ。
まぁ、そうなっても自業自得だろうが、「ＭＲ２乗り」がみんなこんなサイテーなモラル破壊者だと思われたら嫌だと思わないかい？
自由と勝手は違うことをわきまえなさい。
232　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/02/20(Mon) 23:33: 法律の話が先だと思いますよ。トラブルは実際にすでに起きてしまって
いるのだから。モラルどうこうというトークはトラブルが起きてない
平和な時にまったりやればいいんです。
233　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/02/21(Tue) 22:07: >>232
>>1
234　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/04/07(Fri) 16:45: あうー、飛び出してきたネコを避けようとして急ブレーキ。

ネコ動かず、車止まらず、ハンドル切ったら野良犬はねました。。。

何がしたかったんだろう、俺。

人じゃなくて良かったと言うべきなのか、なんなのか。
235　 ナナシサン＠浮気ゴコロ　 2006/04/08(Sat) 12:55: 猫って飛び出してきて、車が来たら道路上（その場）で止まりますよね。
犬なら走りきってしまうのに…

やっぱりそういう習性なんかな。
236　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/04/08(Sat) 13:01: >>234
最初に謝っとく。ごめん！

でも、これだけは言いたい。

あんたのその状況、ドリフじゃないんだからさ！ｗｗｗ

ごめん。
237　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/04/08(Sat) 14:05: >>235
ネコは戻って犬は止まるって認識があるが･･･
238　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/04/08(Sat) 14:08: >>237
えー、猫は危機的状況に対峙すると動きを止めて防御姿勢に入る習性がありますよ。

だから、交通事故に遭うのは犬よりも猫が多いはずです。

ただし、学習する生き物ですから、道路を渡り慣れている猫は止まりません。
239　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/04/25(Tue) 22:44: >>10
なにげにすごいことをばらしてないか？
240　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/06/27(Tue) 22:48: 夜中走ってるとボケた爺さんとかが自転車でふらふら未知のマン中を
走っていますが、タマには轢いちゃったりしてもいいのでしょうか？
241　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/06/27(Tue) 23:20: >>240
そういうボケ老人でさえも傷付けずに運転できることを
「証」としているのがその小さなライセンスですよ。
242　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/06/28(Wed) 00:17: >>241
その「ライセンス」獲得できるようｶﾞﾝｶﾞﾘﾏｽ
243　 姫＠ｉ　 2006/07/10(Mon) 12:39: はじめましてですm(__)m
先程、信号待ちで後ろからヒットされました(T_T)
ウチのは2型のNAなんですが、3型のテール移植なために、修理が大変そうです…。
板金と塗装で終わりそうですが、右肩が外れました(+_+)
まぁ左手が有れば何とかなるかなぁ…。
244　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/07/10(Mon) 13:23: >>243
病院逝って診断書とって人身に切り替えてもらえ。
245　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/07/10(Mon) 14:30: >>243
ＭＲ２は後ろから突っ込まれると真っ直ぐ走らないようになる
246　 ななし＠マターリ＠ｉ　 2006/10/22(Sun) 18:54: Ｈ９年に山の上り坂のコーナーで荷重移動せずにフルブレーキかましたらフロントがロックしてガードレールに刺さりました。ガードレール一枚５万円、ボンネット＆左右リトラ＆その他で２５万。フロントに履いてたヨコハ○Ｍ３が原因？

Ｈ１６年の台風で河川敷の駐車場が増水、川の泥に埋まり、何も知らずに駐車場に入ったら一瞬で４輪フルロックして１５ｍを滑走。ＡＢＳって何？みたいな感じでコンクリの柵を薙ぎ倒し植え込みに激突。仲間の手助けもあり無事逃走したためpriceless
247　 アチャチャ引見際＠ｉ　 2006/10/23(Mon) 14:01: 僕は一週間ぐらい前に自転車で信号待ちをしていたら友達が後ろから突進してきてその拍子で僕は15センチ吹っ飛ばされたそれでかさぶたがはがれて血が一滴でたので友達から521円徴収した。僕はその後怪我が完治するまで一時間掛かった！慰謝料も取ろうと頑張ったが取れなかった！
248　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/10/23(Mon) 16:54: >>246-247
どっちもゴミみたいなセンス持ってるね。
249　 幸世＠ｉ　 2006/10/23(Mon) 20:23: 私は昨日トイレでウンコをしていたら突然君子が入ってきて驚いて頭から便器に突っ込んでしまった。その数秒後頭から臭いものがポタポタ落ちてきた！私は君子から損害賠償を請求するとともに刑事告発を検討中！そして精神的苦痛もあり慰謝料を1000円請求した。私はいまでも忘れない頭に血便がついた事を・・・。そして昨日頭に被った血便の匂いがいまでも取れず心の底から悩んでいる。
250　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/10/23(Mon) 20:52: >>249
くだらないし、汚らしいし、つまんないのでマジでやめて。
251　 幸世＠ｉ　 2006/10/24(Tue) 16:46: 本当に申し訳ないわ♪うふっ。この通り謝りますわっ♪ごめんなさい。だけど私の気持ちも少しはわかってほしいの。私のこの胸の切なさを！ただ、ただ私はその匂いをどうやってとるか教えて欲しいだけなのっ(>_<)本当にごめんなさい・・・。そんなに怒られたら私、私・・・どうにかなっちゃうっ(>_<)ムオｫｫｫ～
252　 ななし＠マターリ　 2006/10/24(Tue) 17:15: >>251
ここはMR2オーナーが集まるサイトです。関係がないのなら
あなたは単なる荒らしなんですよ。あなたのケータイ、
ソフトバンクじゃない？またソフトバンクユーザの荒らしか。ひどいな。
253　 微笑み～＠ｉ　 2006/10/25(Wed) 07:31: わかりましたわっごめんなさぃっもう来ないのでほんとうに申し訳ないとです。
254　 ＳＮＹ＠ｉ　 2006/11/07(Tue) 12:41: 9月26日、自分Bike、相手軽トラの左折巻き込み事故に遭遇…過失9:1Bikeの破損部分クラッチアームのみ修理代約4000円程度。しかしすべて保険屋任せ。自分は罪の意識ない様子で一切謝罪なしの為修理請求13･5万円+現在も通院中…足は二輪に巻き込まれた極軽症だったのですが…実に悪ドイ…
255　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2006/11/07(Tue) 14:02: >>254
軽症だったらそんなもんんじゃない？
軽トラのじーさんとかじゃなおさら
256　 ななし＠マターリ　 2007/05/04(Fri) 14:56: 今週の水曜日に都会から地元に帰り
地元の峠をSW20でせめて
カーブを曲がったらハンドルとられて
フロント右が山に突っ込み
グッシャグシャ
そのままスピンして
ガードレールに右のリアをぶつけて
止まりました～
もしガードレールが無かったら
谷底にまっ逆さま
SW20は廃車になりました
結構グッシャグシャだったのに
ミッドシップレイアウトに
シートベルトとバケットシートに
助けられたて無傷でした
初めて買った車だったのに
一ヶ月で●|￣|＿
257　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2007/05/04(Fri) 15:23: >>256
1ヶ月で乗りこなせる様な奥の浅いクルマではないよ。
汁ビアとかのダレでも簡単ＦＲだったら無事だったかもねｗ
258　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2007/05/04(Fri) 15:23: >>256
ご愁傷様。
高い授業料だったけど、命があるんだからまだ良いんだよ。
働いてまた買えるじゃん。
これに懲りたら、公道でコントロールできない領域まで攻め込むものじゃないって事が理解できるでしょ？
259　 ななし＠マターリ＠ｉ　 2007/05/04(Fri) 19:02: >>256
他人を巻き込まなくてよかったね。俺も昔事故って全損こいた事があって運良く単独ですんだけど、一歩間違えば前科者になるところだったよ。以来、運転は常にスローペース
260　 ななし＠マターリ＠ｉ　 2007/05/05(Sat) 10:39: ガードレール、今はすごく値下がりしたからいいけど、何年か前までは1区間で60万円もしたんだよ。今は17万円前後だとさ。

ガードレール壊したまま逃げる犯罪者には免許の生涯剥奪などの厳罰希望。
261　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2007/05/05(Sat) 14:40: >>260
お上の金銭感覚は狂っているからね。
天下り先の業者に発注すれば、ボッタクリ定価で納品する事になる。
ガードレールなんて、本来均一価格で良いんだよ。
原料の鉄が変わる訳じゃあるまいし、変わるとしたら設置条件や場所でしょう。

ガードレールは警察と保険会社に連絡すれば、その間で保障される。
無保険車や当て逃げは論外だけれどね。
本来厳罰は、↓に指摘されているような国賊にこそふさわしい。
ttp://blog.yoshiko-sakurai.jp/2005/07/post_357.html
262　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2007/05/05(Sat) 17:29: そんなアナタに
ttp://www.web-pbi.com/
263　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2007/05/05(Sat) 18:26: >>261
コノばーさんだれ？お前の親でつか？
264　 ななし＠マターリ　 2007/05/05(Sat) 19:30: >>263
ググレカス（ＡＡｒｙ
265　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2007/05/07(Mon) 21:01: ググレタスwww
266　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2007/05/08(Tue) 00:41: ククレカレー
267　 名無しさん＠陽気な不良外人　 2007/05/09(Wed) 07:23: ｸﾞｯﾃﾝﾏｲﾔｰ
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